Russian Roulette | The Safely Sourcing China Blog

Posts Tagged ‘russian roulette’

Did You Do it To Yourself? And Are You Still Doing It?

Monday, March 1st, 2010

Scammed or Self-Inflicted Wound?

It’s my personal opinion that many people who get themselves scammed in China, or elsewhere for that matter, do so almost willingly.

When I say “willingly“, I don’t actually mean that they say, “Hey! Mr. Scammer, please take my money from me!“ Although, when one looks at it from a certain direction, it may appear to be almost a silent agreement to such.

The Addictive Brain!
The Addictive Brain!

But, what I really mean, is that it’s reminiscent of the behaviour of a drug addict; because one knows one shouldn’t, but one nevertheless goes and does it anyway.

People usually KNOW a few things before a scammer closes on them.

1. They know that the deal is too good to be true.

Which quite frankly, in and of itself, should be ringing every alarm bell in their nervous systems.

2. They know that they are ignoring the warnings that their whole life’s experiences are sending them.

Yes, they just feel the truth of it in the seat of their pants – that something isn’t quite right. But, like the risk takers we humans are, ike the eternal optimists that we are – we persist with it and even ignore our own selves.

3. They know they should not send that money.

By this point, these people are really like junkies trying to withdraw from drugs. “I know I shouldn’t, but I just can’t help myself. I just need to do it. Just once more. I’m sure I’ll get lucky this time!“

Don't Play Russian Roulette With Your Money!
Don’t Play Russian Roulette With Your Money!

We use most of our senses, to avoid being set on fire, to smell the foods we eat, and perhaps the dog poop behind the sofa; we use our ears and eyes to stop us being run over by a car or truck, as we cross the road.

But, then we go and send $ 5,000 to some girl called “Minky” on the other side of the planet!

I mean – HEY! That isn’t even a real name,; and I don’t mean a fake or false identity. I mean not real as in the same way that I don’t have “kizu-maliki-shopytoof” in my kitchen; primarily because no such thing exists, not unless by sheer fluke I’ve named a real kitchen utensil in some obscure language.

Surely the fact they can’t even get a regular name together must tell you something about the SERIOUSNESS of the people you’re dealing with.

I’m reminded of those people who call those telephone sex lines (whatever they are), and some grotesque woman is sitting there pushing Twinkies, or another brand of sweet and sticky thing, down her throat like a factory production line, weighing in at 437 lbs (at 5 feet 3), and has to walk with the aid of sticks due to her medically gross obesity, is telling you her name is “Yvette“, and that she’s tall, slim, has diplomas in dance and theatre, is wearing a black negligee, likes you much more than anybody else who calls, because you’re almost like a real friend, and that we really should meet one day, but now she’s feeling really wet for you, and would you like to….

Ahem! Well, I’m sure you get the picture.

These “victims” have a sense that it’s going to happen, but still they press on, gritting their teeth in the hopes of a win.

Now, that’s what I call optimism!

Yes, these people know it’s going to happen. If not actually GOING TO, then certainly VERY LIKELY TO.

That’s what makes the scam almost a self-inflicted wound!

We're All Gamblers In One Way Or Another!
We’re All Gamblers In One Way Or Another!

Honestly, the inside of these peoples’ heads must look and sound exactly the same as that of a gambler with his last dollar – there he is standing in front of a fruit machine, and trying to decide whether to buy some food to eat, or slip it into the slot.

Of course, the decision was already made before he’d even thought of the question. Because our human sense of risk, or addiction, tends to walk about three paces in front of all other thought processes we’re experiencing.

Our sense of risk rides along like a surf board on the wave of every other thought we have. And it is because of this that our addiction will always finish ahead of everything else we think, do, taste, or feel.

It lives on the top of that wave, and everything else rests in its’ shadow.

We tell alcoholics that the first thing they need to do is understand that they HAVE A PROBLEM, before they can address it.

The same is true here.

In the same way as those guys calling on those sex lines, often the people who lose out here and elsewhere, are simply deluding themselves. They actually make the job of being a scammer easier.

Just remember this. A scam can only occur when one party wants something for nothing; all the other party is doing is giving you nothing for something.

Try to cut corners and you’ll cut your own throat.

There is no secret way; no special way; no something to which you aren’t privy.

There is simply a right way and wrong way. The first will bring you benefits, and the second will bring you misery.

You’ll simply lose the dollars, whilst trying to save the cents.

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 00:51:02. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

Popularity: 16%

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What Can Happen If You Lose On A Deal In China?

Sunday, February 28th, 2010

What Can You Expect To Pay For CIETAC To Arbitrate For You, Should You Lose On A Deal In China?.

So, you lost out, and were skinned and scammed by a company in China, and now you want to go to arbitration to get back what you’ve lost, as well as getting some justice from the “evil doers“, as Mr. Bush might say. So, what’s it going to cost you?

Well, the following is the CIETAC fee schedule for their arbitration services, which I’ve converted, as near as possible, to the corresponding USD values.

Now, remember, when you choose to go into arbitration you agree to abide by the arbitral outcome. That is to say, that should the judgement go against you then all of the following monies tabulated below, will be lost to you on-top of your actual current losses. And don’t go confusing Western Jurisprudence with that of China; it may very well go against you. Remember, this is another risk.

As clearly stated beyond the main table, there may be further “…arbitration fee(s) according to this Arbitration Fee Schedule, the CIETAC or its Sub-commission may collect other extra, reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules.” Meaning, that whatever you’re charged in the initial schedule may also include further fees levied to your account to the value of 1,500 USD per additional charge, per additional “…reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules.”

Of course, even should you win, the defendant may still hold you up by delaying payment for a variety of reasons, and causing you to resort to CIETAC again, at further expense, which you will then have to get CIETAC to levy back against the defendant. Or, of course, they may just shut up shop and disappear. This kind of tactic wouldn’t necessarily be unusual.

Now, let’s just take a look at a bare-bones example, without the extra fees, and see what we’re talking about here.

We’ll take the lowest level in the schedule as an example, and this is just waving the stick a little, to get an idea of how things could go.

So, you lost $150,000 to a company somewhere in some province, in China.

You go to CIETAC, and before anything happens (and at this point I think it only fitting to mention that there is about a 9 month backlog with CIETAC) you are charged a fee of $5,250, plus the $1,500 registration fee, which is charged at all levels. Therefore, you’re current total is now $6,750, and you’ve just finished the registration process alone.

Then there will be charges for phone calls, letters, and transport costs for an examiner to visit the defendant or their place of business, hotel costs, living cost etc.

So, let’s just consider transport, living, interview, and visitation costs.

Let’s just call that another $3,000, and remain in the conservative area of things. That would bring you up to around the $9,750 mark. Then there’ll be the weeks and months of back and forth, hither and thither, as nothing in this vein happens either quickly or directly in China.

In the meantime, you may see your charges rise by another $3,000, before you even get close to an arbitral decision; and by which time you will have shelled out, on top of your $150,000 loss, another $12,750, and you’ll be sweating and hoping it all goes your way, or else you’ve lost your initial loss of $150,000 plus another $12,750.

So, are you shaking in your boots? Quivering with anger and frustration?

You should be!

Before I present you with the CIETAC arbitration fee schedule, allow me to tell you that there’s another way around this, and that is – PREVENTION.

Your China Trading Partner

Your China Trading Partner

Very simply, you can contact us at Your China Trading Partner, and we’ll make a factory visit, do your Due Diligence, and arrange for your goods to be checked before leaving port.

For us to go visit the factory, and to have your goods checked at port before shipping, will cost you approximately another $850 to $1,000 on top of your costs; whilst of course, on our factory visit we’ll get your supplier to agree to the insertion of the CIETAC Arbitration Clause in your joint contract, and which states:

“Any dispute arising from or in connection with this Contract shall be submitted to China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission for arbitration which shall be conducted in accordance with the Commission’s arbitration rules in effect at the time of applying for arbitration. The arbitral award is final and binding upon both parties.”

And thereby, offer you a little extra protection; additionally, of course, you can include in the terms of your L/C, that monies will not be released until goods have passed random quality checking, at their exit port prior to shipping.

Now, here’s a final question for you, before I introduce you to that fee schedule.

Doesn’t it make a lot more sense to spend another $850 to $1,000 on top of your costs, as insurance against the nightmare of losing your investment, and then having to go to arbitration with CIETAC?

I’m a little tired of hearing about all these losses, when I know that even if they can’t be completely dissolved, they can, at the very least, be seriously mitigated.

But, we live in a cost-cutting global mentality, and have done since the Thatcher and Reagan years; and people are silly enough to even cut costs on their insurance and investment security.

This is precisely the kind of mentality that makes dollars for the scammers, and no cents to me? Does it make cents to you?

Get the pun?

Now Here’s That Fee Schedule for you.

China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission

ARBITRATION FEE SCHEDULE

(This fee schedule applies to the arbitration cases accepted under Item 1 and 2 of Article 3 of the Arbitration Rules, and becomes effective on May 1, 2005)

Amount of Claim (USD).

Amount of Fee (USD).

150,000 USD or less.

 3.5% of the Claimed Amount, minimum 1,500 USD.

150,000 USD to 750,000 USD.

5,000 USD plus 2.5% of the amount above 150,000 USD.

750,000 USD to 1,500,000 USD.

19,750 USD plus 1.5% of the amount above 750,000 USD.

1,500,00 USD to 7,500,000 USD.

30,700 USD plus 1% of the amount above 1,500,000 USD.

7,500,000 USD or more.

90,000 USD plus 0.5% of the amount above 7,500,000 USD.

Each case, when being accepted, shall be charged an additional amount of $1,500 as a Registration Fee which includes the expenses for examining the application for arbitration, initiating the arbitration proceedings, computerizing management and filing the documents.

Where the amount of the claim is not ascertained at the time when application for arbitration is handed in, or there exists special circumstances, the amount of arbitration fee shall be determined by the secretariat of the CIETAC or its Sub-Commission.

Apart from charging arbitration fee according to this Arbitration Fee Schedule, the CIETAC or its Sub-commission may collect other extra, reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules.

Safe Trading!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 05:48:30. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

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China Sourcing Concerns

Sunday, February 21st, 2010

Some Concerns About Sourcing From China.

The following are a list of some of the more common questions people seem to have regarding trading with China. I have sought to answer them as directly and frankly as I can.

Why am I worried about sourcing from or manufacturing in China?

Firstly, if you aren’t concerned, you might as well open your window, set fire to your money, and start shoveling it out of the window into the street.

There is risk in anything we do in the world of business, and to think otherwise is to fool oneself into a false sense of security.

Moreover, to believe that one can safely self-source from China is equally as absurd and dangerous.

Your concerns are valid, as they would be even if you were sourcing from Israel, Portugal, or any other country; and trading or dealing with China is no different.

China has its’ own set of cultural and business subtleties and values, to which you as a foreigner or someone unaccustomed to dealing with China, may be totally oblivious to; but to someone such as myself, having lived here for 8 years, are not lost to me.

And it is precisely for these reasons that you need someone here you can trust, who is culturally familiar with those nuances of business and social culture, and who can operate in and on your behalf.

What about quality? Isn’t China famous for producing poor quality goods?

That may well have been true at one time. However, you need to ask your self whether you’re happy with the quality of your iPhone? Because Apple have been producing in China for a number of years, along with a plethora of other famous High Street brands.

Of course, that isn’t to say that quality doesn’t or can’t suffer. It does, as with anywhere else in the world. However, if you ensure that random quality checking is employed before the goods leave port, then one can drastically mitigate this risk.

Furthermore, when once you develop a successful long-term relationship with a manufacturer, they will understand the benefits of not cutting their own throats.

To my mind, one of the reasons China has gained its’ reputation for poor quality, is also in part due to a failure of buyers to perform the necessary due diligence and oversight that they should.

However, allow me to reiterate a point I’ve just made: Sound partners, and a representative presence in Mainland China, able to perform your due diligence, and maintain an oversight of quality, plus developing your long-term relationship with the producer, will go a long way towards drastically mitigating the issue of poor quality to a level acceptable in the West.

So, how many people will have their fingers in my, production and purchasing, pie in China?

Well, the people, or groups involved could be as few as one, if your goods are coming from one of the larger companies, such as TsingHua TongFang, whom I represent as Agent to Africa, Europe, and North America; or they could be several, for one of the smaller companies. Of course, the amount of fingers in the pie will play a very definite role in the cost of your goods, and sometimes even the quality.

However, the role of ‘GuanXi’, or what we would term ‘relationships’, plays a significant role in Chinese society at all levels, and particularly in business; as it has done for several thousand years, and the power of which shouldn’t be ignored or underestimated, and which is an unavoidable necessity and phenomena.

This is a deeply ingrained and necessary interpersonal skill, and which is tightly bound and woven into the fabric of the Chinese psyche. I’m sure that should you check your own embassy websites in China you will come across the term ‘GuanXi’ several times.

No ‘GuanXi’, no help!

It is precisely for this reason, that should you intend doing business in, or with, China, you need a mediator to act as a conduit to facilitate smooth and safe trading.

Your conduit can form relationships on your behalf, that you are unable to form due to geographical distance, language, and cultural distance.

You scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours; is precisely how it works in China.

What if my goods aren’t delivered on time or the quality isn’t what I requested?


Well, in that case we incorporate into the contract CIETAC’s model arbitration clause.

NOTE: CIETAC (China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission (A government department and Part of MOFCOM - The Chinese Ministry of Commerce).

Here’s the clause:

“Any dispute arising from or in connection with this Contract shall be submitted to China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission for arbitration which shall be conducted in accordance with the Commission’s arbitration rules in effect at the time of applying for arbitration. The arbitral award is final and binding upon both parties.”

The same clause can be used for the safety of your financial transaction, in addition to opening a Letter of Credit (L/C) rather than a Telegraphic Transfer (TT) of funds.

Of course your letter of credit can dictate additional terms before funds are released; these terms can be specifically directed at shipping windows and parameters, levels of acceptable quality, processing of any and all necessary certificates and forms, proper and correct carton and packaging markings, and any necessary Electronic Data Interchange (EDI) Standards compliance. Consequent to which, should the terms not be met as defined in the terms of the contract and in the letter of credit, then it will be up to you to decide or determine whether the funds be made available to the seller.

So, that’s it for today.

Safe Trading!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 01:10:36. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

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Something You Need To Know About Us

Wednesday, February 17th, 2010

Something You Need To Know About

Your China Trading Partner.

Your China Trading Partner

Your China Trading Partner

The increased influx of emails we’ve received, from people who’ve been burnt in their China dealings, has prompted me to write the following.

Here are some things you need to know about us before you contact us.

Who are we?

We are product sourcing agents, and are focused in sourcing whatever products you need, and covering a very wide scope.

We have close associations with a number of Chinese companies whom we trust, and are constantly developing new relationships with new suppliers.

Whatever it is that you want, we can find it, as long as it’s being produced in China.

Although, we are somewhat different to other sourcing agents, because we also assist in debt recovery, and also take an active role in warning the purchasing public, of the potential dangers of self-sourcing products from such a distance; whilst at the same time, providing the purchasing public with guidelines aimed at helping them avoid the potential pitfalls of dealing with China – such as being scammed, and losing their money.

Why Should You Deal With Us?

  • Because, we are principled business people who believe in putting people before profit.
  • Because, we are the good guys who think of others before ourselves.
  • Because, we demonstrate this by having a starting commission rate of only 5%, and falling according to size of order.
  • Because, we don’t charge any commission from the Chinese side, as other agents do, and so increase YOUR costs; our aim is to try to get you the best price we can.
  • Because, of the two previous points, you have already saved a minimum of 50%, and a maximum of 150% on agency commission costs, when compared to what other agents would charge you. We prefer turnover, and customer satisfaction, by making you and the Chinese supplier happy on cost.
  • Because, we believe in business fairness, balance, and harmony in all our transactions.
  • Because business doesn’t always have to be shady and knife-in-the-back.
  • Because, we, having a far better handle on the language, can source a wider range than simply logging into Alibaba, or some such website.
  • Because, we understand business culture here, and can spot a scammer before we even go face-to-face.
  • Because, if you don’t use us, you’ll more than likely get burnt.
  • Because, if you do get yourself burnt, it better be for a large amount, because if you come to us after the event, and you’ve only lost a couple of hundred, or a couple of thousand, we just won’t be able to help you.
  • Because, we get a mountain of mail from people having lost less than $10,000 USD, on a daily basis, and we know, what you DON’T know, and that is this – you’re never going to see your money again.
  • Because, if you got burnt for an iPhone and a couple of Dell computers, we aren’t able to help you; our sympathy you have, our help, you do not.
  • Because, if your case is for more than $10,000 USD, the chances are you probably did some research and due diligence, and the company stands a chance of being ‘real’, and they’re simply chancing it with you; and that means we stand a chance of getting your money back.
  • Because, our recovery service fee, is the same as our sourcing fee – 5% of the order value.

What Are The Benefits Of Sourcing From China?

Well, generally speaking you should find that you can reduce your average costs of manufacturing by up to 30%, and even as high as 60% on European and North American manufacturers.

For example:

Scares aside, due to failure to quality check goods at port before leaving customs, pharmaceuticals can be produced, and synthesised in China at greatly reduced costs.

In certain cases costing only 1 tenth of what the same product would cost to produce in Europe or the US.

Now that’s a saving!

These types of savings are par for the course for a wide range of , but not all, products in China.

Well, with so many companies making money from this – Why Aren’t You?

What Quantity Are We Talking?

Well, most genuine suppliers have a Minimum Order Quantity (MOQ), which can vary, depending on product, from 3 to 3,000 pieces.

So, How Can You Avail Yourself Of Our Unique Situation?

Your problem is one of trust.

You have nobody here on whom you can rely.

Quite simply, you need to have a third party here in China you can trust, and to ensure that you get the goods you want, shipped to your market of choice, when you want, and at a the price you want.

But China is so far away, and you don’t know the culture, the people, or the language. But you do know, that all of the aforementioned can cause you problems.

How can you resolve these issues without going to China?

Easy, develop a relationship with somebody you can trust, and allow them to handle things for you.

Connect With The Right People – Not With The Wrong People.

Allow us to be your prime contact in China.

I’m a British expatriate, married to a Chinese citizen, and have been living and working here for 8 years.

Quite simply, my China qualifications are way superior to yours.

Take advantage of me – before someone takes advantage of YOU!

Here’s My Hand, And My Offer.

Accurately specify what it is you want, and we’ll find a source for you.

We don’t charge a fee for inquiries, and you should immediately, or within a few days, be presented with a series of offers, from which you can choose what appeals best to you.

If the source is new to us, and you can guarantee you want to take that offer, then we’ll go down and verify the source first, before you make the payment, at no extra cost to you, as we consider a new source to be a new RESOURCE for us.

Give us the stress you just don’t need – and don’t feed the greed!

Safe Trading!

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Originally posted 2009-09-13 18:58:21. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

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