Scammers | The Safely Sourcing China Blog - Part 2

Posts Tagged ‘scammers’

What Can Happen If You Lose On A Deal In China?

Saturday, July 3rd, 2010

What Can You Expect To Pay For CIETAC To Arbitrate For You, Should You Lose On A Deal In China?.

So, you lost out, and were skinned and scammed by a company in China, and now you want to go to arbitration to get back what you’ve lost, as well as getting some justice from the “evil doers“, as Mr. Bush might say. So, what’s it going to cost you? Well, the following is the CIETAC fee schedule for their arbitration services, which I’ve converted, as near as possible, to the corresponding USD values. Now, remember, when you choose to go into arbitration you agree to abide by the arbitral outcome. That is to say, that should the judgement go against you then all of the following monies tabulated below, will be lost to you on-top of your actual current losses. And don’t go confusing Western Jurisprudence with that of China; it may very well go against you. Remember, this is another risk. As clearly stated beyond the main table, there may be further “arbitration fee(s) according to this Arbitration Fee Schedule, the CIETAC or its Sub-commission may collect other extra, reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules.” Meaning, that whatever you’re charged in the initial schedule may also include further fees levied to your account to the value of 1,500 USD per additional charge, per additional “reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules.” Of course, even should you win, the defendant may still hold you up by delaying payment for a variety of reasons, and causing you to resort to CIETAC again, at further expense, which you will then have to get CIETAC to levy back against the defendant. Or, of course, they may just shut up shop and disappear. This kind of tactic wouldn’t necessarily be unusual. Now, let’s just take a look at a bare-bones example, without the extra fees, and see what we’re talking about here. We’ll take the lowest level in the schedule as an example, and this is just waving the stick a little, to get an idea of how things could go. So, you lost $150,000 to a company somewhere in some province, in China. You go to CIETAC, and before anything happens (and at this point I think it only fitting to mention that there is about a 9 month backlog with CIETAC) you are charged a fee of $5,250, plus the $1,500 registration fee, which is charged at all levels. Therefore, you’re current total is now $6,750, and you’ve just finished the registration process alone. Then there will be charges for phone calls, letters, and transport costs for an examiner to visit the defendant or their place of business, hotel costs, living cost etc. So, let’s just consider transport, living, interview, and visitation costs. Let’s just call that another $3,000, and remain in the conservative area of things. That would bring you up to around the $9,750 mark. Then there’ll be the weeks and months of back and forth, hither and thither, as nothing in this vein happens either quickly or directly in China. In the meantime, you may see your charges rise by another $3,000, before you even get close to an arbitral decision; and by which time you will have shelled out, on top of your $150,000 loss, another $12,750, and you’ll be sweating and hoping it all goes your way, or else you’ve lost your initial loss of $150,000 plus another $12,750. So, are you shaking in your boots? Quivering with anger and frustration? You should be! Before I present you with the CIETAC arbitration fee schedule, allow me to tell you that there’s another way around this, and that is – PREVENTION.

Your China Trading Partner

Your China Trading Partner

Very simply, you can contact us at Your China Trading Partner, and we’ll make a factory visit, do your Due Diligence, and arrange for your goods to be checked before leaving port. For us to go visit the factory, and to have your goods checked at port before shipping, will cost you approximately another $850 to $1,000 on top of your costs; whilst of course, on our factory visit we’ll get your supplier to agree to the insertion of the CIETAC Arbitration Clause in your joint contract, and which states: “Any dispute arising from or in connection with this Contract shall be submitted to China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission for arbitration which shall be conducted in accordance with the Commission’s arbitration rules in effect at the time of applying for arbitration. The arbitral award is final and binding upon both parties.” And thereby, offer you a little extra protection; additionally, of course, you can include in the terms of your L/C, that monies will not be released until goods have passed random quality checking, at their exit port prior to shipping. Now, here’s a final question for you, before I introduce you to that fee schedule. Doesn’t it make a lot more sense to spend another $850 to $1,000 on top of your costs, as insurance against the nightmare of losing your investment, and then having to go to arbitration with CIETAC? I’m a little tired of hearing about all these losses, when I know that even if they can’t be completely dissolved, they can, at the very least, be seriously mitigated. But, we live in a cost-cutting global mentality, and have done since the Thatcher and Reagan years; and people are silly enough to even cut costs on their insurance and investment security. This is precisely the kind of mentality that makes dollars for the scammers, and no cents to me? Does it make cents to you? Get the pun? Now Here’s That Fee Schedule for you.

China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission

ARBITRATION FEE SCHEDULE (This fee schedule applies to the arbitration cases accepted under Item 1 and 2 of Article 3 of the Arbitration Rules, and becomes effective on May 1, 2005)

Amount of Claim (USD). Amount of Fee (USD).
150,000 USD or less. 3.5% of the Claimed Amount, minimum 1,500 USD.
150,000 USD to 750,000 USD. 5,000 USD plus 2.5% of the amount above 150,000 USD.
750,000 USD to 1,500,000 USD. 19,750 USD plus 1.5% of the amount above 750,000 USD.
1,500,00 USD to 7,500,000 USD. 30,700 USD plus 1% of the amount above 1,500,000 USD.
7,500,000 USD or more. 90,000 USD plus 0.5% of the amount above 7,500,000 USD.

Each case, when being accepted, shall be charged an additional amount of $1,500 as a Registration Fee which includes the expenses for examining the application for arbitration, initiating the arbitration proceedings, computerizing management and filing the documents. Where the amount of the claim is not ascertained at the time when application for arbitration is handed in, or there exists special circumstances, the amount of arbitration fee shall be determined by the secretariat of the CIETAC or its Sub-Commission. Apart from charging arbitration fee according to this Arbitration Fee Schedule, the CIETAC or its Sub-commission may collect other extra, reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules. Safe Trading!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 05:48:30. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

Popularity: 19%

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Reiteration – China – A Popular Misconception

Friday, July 2nd, 2010

China – A Popular Misconception.

Further, and more recent email requests for Wiis and Amazon Kindle 2 E-Book Readers, and similar products, have forced me to reiterate a point I have made on many forums before. There seems to be a common misconception that one can simply buy any branded product directly from China; I have to tell you that in most cases this simply isn’t true. If you wish to buy the product you want, you will have to go through an authorised dealer or distributor in your own country. Although a large majority of hi-tech toys, gadgets, and games are produced here in China; they are produced here to be legally exported to traders and dealers who have sole right of distribution in your country, or their other respective countries – not to be sold freely from China to anyone who wants them. Consequently, the only thing you will find here are knock-offs – or FAKES. So, all I can say to you is, that unless you can find those legal distributors in your own country, through a request to the parent company, or producer, then I’m afraid you will only ever be cheated. That will occur in one of two ways: 1. They’ll just take your money. 2. They’ll send you fakes of either very good to crap quality (and don’t expect to get a real warranty). Is this sinking in yet? Now, that doesn’t mean you can’t buy from China. It just means that you will have to forgo the famous brands, and choose some of the excellent, high-quality, OTHER brands (or no-name brands to you), and which are available for legal export to your country, and for which you can get very good deals and make a very decent mark-up when you sell them. Customers don’t want them? Then buy some anyway, and TEACH your customers to want them. That’s how brand names became brand names – and that’s how a true salesperson works. It seems that the art of SELLING has been forgotten and replaced by the lesser art of TRYING TO MEET DEMAND or just jumping into the current trend or wave. Don’t try to meet demands – try and educate clients and GENERATE NEW DEMANDS. It used to be called – BREAKING A NEW MARKET. Responding to demand is easy, everybody and anybody can, and are doing this – breaking a new market, and REALLY selling, is a very profitable skill. In other words – Don’t follow fashions – SET THEM!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 01:00:00. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

Popularity: 8%

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Quick Checklist – How To Spot A Scam

Friday, July 2nd, 2010

Quick Checklist For How To Spot A Chinese Scam Site.

The following six red rags are simply a list of indicators, which in isolated terms, may or may not mean anything; however, when found all together, should ring some alarm bells. As with anything in business or life, the whole is greater than the sum of its’ parts.

1. The Site.

The website has an absence of any Chinese version for its’ own pages.

This means they’re targeting only one group of prospects – foreigners.

That is to say, people who will not stand a hope in hell’s chance of chasing them up after the bolt is shot.

In my experience, companies in China that have Chinese and English versions of their pages are usually genuine, as they’re making themselves accessible to the home market too; particularly for companies dealing in electronics, phones, and computers.

An absence of such, may, but not always, indicate a potential scam site.

O.K. our website only has English, but we deal with requests from foreigners, and we seek-out suppliers. Suppliers seldom seek us out; although, we occasionally have a Chinese company approach us with an offer and  an introduction.

2. Contact Information.

All the email addresses are ‘Hotmail‘ or ‘Yahoo‘; there is a distinct absence of a company email address.

This in and of itself doesn’t carry too much weight, as many genuine Chinese companies operate with private email addresses.

However, it is a common enough marker amongst the scammers.

You can also try running a quick check on the company’s name and address, via the online English language page of the Yellow Pages for China, found at: www.yp.net.cn/english/.

If they have no listing, then there’s a good chance they aren’t a genuine company; either that, or they’re a SOHO (Small Office Home Office), and use their home as an office, as they usually never come face-to-face with clients, and have no need of an office as such.

However, this wouldn’t usually be the case for a technology company, as they’d normally have to have an official office, and storage facilities out of mere necessity.

3. Company Registration Number.

Of course, as a legally registered business entity, they’d need to have a business registration number.

When once you have that number, you can go to the following Ministry of Commerce (MOFCOM) page, for contact details of the Local Administrations office, and try to get the data for the government business registration office in the city, and the province where they claim to be registered. You can then email, fax, or phone requesting to know if this number matches a genuine business.

MOFCOM Local Administration Contact Page: http://english.mofcom.gov.cn/aarticle/topic/chinainvest/localguide/200702/20070204378447.html.

Sadly however, the Ministry’s own website is very poorly put together, as you yourself will note upon visiting it, and a search for the contact data for the appropriate office may not actually work; neither does the page display correctly. I have informed the Ministry of this fault, as have others, but to no avail.

This is something I’m in the process of changing by putting together my own listing, and which I shall make available to registered users of Safely Sourcing China, and collated on a provincial, and city level.

The inaction of the Ministry to properly display this data, and its’ accompanying suspicion which is cast upon the Ministry itself, seems to have escaped them.

4. Unbeatable Offer.

This one is a complete no-brainer; if the price seems to good to be true – then it’s a scam.

5. Payment.

Ask if the company will accept an L/C (Letter of Credit); if they only take Western Union, PayPal, and the likes, then they’re more than likely a scammer.

6. IP Check.

Run an IP address check on the company and see how many other web addresses they have registered to them.

Personally I’ve come across guys with upwards of 2 or 3 hundred websites connected to them as the registrant.

Go here and type the web address, MINUS the WWW bit, into the box: whois.domaintools.com/.

This last one is a definite NO-NO. If you see they’re registered to a cartload of websites, just turn your back, shake the dust from your sandals, and leave.

And that’s about it for your basic checks; more to come in the future.

Trade Safely!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 01:20:19. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

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