Self-inflicted Wound | The Safely Sourcing China Blog

Posts Tagged ‘self-inflicted wound’

Games Consoles, XBOX, iPhone Products From China

Wednesday, September 1st, 2010

China – Games Consoles And The Scam

More than a few people have discussed XBOX and Games Consoles, and I’ve often been asked about sourcing them.

I’d like to make specific mention of this issue briefly here.

The Parallel or Grey Importing of Goods.

Scammers Love You, Because You Love This!

Scammers Love You, Because You Love This!

I’ll talk about parallel or grey importing using computers as an example first, and then follow on to briefly discuss games consoles and Xboxes.

Brand name electrical goods and computers CAN be found here in China.

However, when you start trying to take them from China (or anywhere else) into other countries, then you fall into an area known as parallel or grey importing. Many companies are now really cracking down on this, particularly SONY™ for instance, in co-operation with the EU, there has a been a dramatic increase in seizures of goods at ports.

Scammers Love Your Money - And You Love To Give It To Them!

Scammers Love Your Money - And You Love To Give It To Them!

The parallel or grey market is the trade of something legal through unofficial, unauthorized, and usually unintended distribution channels.

For example: To export anything made by Dell™ in China, to the US, would be considered by Dell™ US to be poaching on their territory.

Sometimes the practice of parallel or grey importing is illegal, but not always so.

Many of the parties concerned with the parallel or grey importing of a good are usually the authorized agents or importers, or other retailers of an item in the target market. More often than not this is the national subsidiary of the manufacturer, or one of its related companies. In response to the ensuing damage to both their profits and their reputation, many manufacturers, and their official distribution chains will very often seek to restrict the parallel or grey market.

Such responses can breach competition law, particularly within the European Union.

Competition law, in the United States is known as antitrust law.

Refusal to Honour Warranties

Manufacturers have the right to refuse to honour the warranty of an item purchased from parallel or grey market sources, on the grounds that the higher price you should have paid on the non-grey market reflects a higher level of expected service.

To The Scammer, 'You' Are The 'Apple' of Their Eyes!

To The Scammer, 'You' Are The 'Apple' of Their Eyes!

Additionally, companies may provide the warranty service only from the manufacturer’s subsidiary only from within the intended country of import, and not in the diverted third country to where the parallel or grey goods are ultimately sold by the unauthorised distributor or retailer.

Are you prepared to make money at any cost?

Are you the kind of person who’d sell grey or parallel goods to someone, irrespective of the effective lack of any genuine warranty on those goods?

Do you not care about the end user, your client, and your own reputation?

Because, if your answer is ‘yes‘ to the first two questions, and ‘no‘ to the third one, then I really don’t see much difference between you and the scammers.

In my opinion, if you’re buying grey or parallel, then you’re obviously a bit shady yourself.

The response by scammers to the grey market is particularly evident in the electronic goods market, where I hear people crying loudly at having been ripped and burned regularly!

Have You Got Money To Burn?

Have You Got Money To Burn?

Yes, it seems to be the people endeavouring to buy games and game consoles, along with iPhones etc., who are the one’s who get burned most frequently by the scammers.

Just by virtue of wanting these goods grey or parallel, you put yourself at the scammers table, and if you’re unlucky (which you most probably will be) you’ll find yourself on a scammers dinner plate too.

If that’s you, or you’re thinking about entering this line of business, then I suggest you find another product line to trade in, one that you can get direct from a good OEM/ODM in China.

Remember, the scammers love those who love to buy grey!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 05:31:50. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

Popularity: 18%

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China’s Money Mules – And Why You’ve Lost It For Good

Wednesday, September 1st, 2010

China Scam – Money Mules – And Why You Will Never See Your Money Again.

I’d like to point out to you, in very clear and marked terms, just why it is you will never see your money again, should you happen to lose to a scam in China; particularly those of you who lose money to companies whilst trying to buy iPhones, Nintendo, etc. Last week, I wrote about Mr. Stefano Carboni’s apparent involvement in the money mule scam; that is, getting other people to transfer funds through their personal bank accounts, as a means of laundering it to a final destination. Then only this week, I discover, through certain of my contacts here in China, the reason you won’t ever see your money again is based on similar grounds. Here is how it works: There are approximately 300 million agricultural workers in China, and approximately 40 million migrant workers travelling from city to city in attempts to find some kind of living. So, no shortage of potential mules! A quick review of salaries in China may provide you with a glimpse at the motivation behind the actions I’m about to describe.

A Chinese Farmer

A Chinese Farmer

In 2007 the average farmer in China earned around 4,140 RMB (Yuan) or approximately $605 USD per annum; the average salary for a construction worker in China is approximately 1, 064 RMB (Yuan) or $122 USD per month; whilst the average factory worker is earning around 1,100 RMB (Yuan) or $ 160 USD per month. As can be seen, by the above figures, the 300 million farmers in the agricultural sector earn less than 30% of what construction and factory workers can earn in a year. This fact is widely known in China, and it is to this sector of the community that the scammers go with their offer. So, what is their offer? It’s very simple, actually. They say to the peasant farmer, something along the lines of, “Look we have all these foreign clients, but we don’t want to pay tax and stuff, and so we need an alternative account for the funds to be transferred to, as a means of avoiding the tax. You open a bank account for us using your ID, our foreign clients transfer funds to it, and then move the funds on to another account, the details of which we’ll give you (usually Taiwan); and we’ll pay you a nice fat commission, and you and your family will be much better off. Your child will be able to go to a better school, and then on to university, and the whole future of your family will be changed for the better – forever.” Of course, from Taiwan, the money is then transferred to other destinations. So, the peasant, knowing a good thing when he or she sees or hears one; and who is always willing to make extra money for the family, says, “HaoDe!” or “HaoLe!” (Good! or Fine with me!). I mean, why wouldn’t they? People in the West do exactly this when they get involved in fake cheque scams, and act as money mules for a variety of mafias. In actuality, the Chinese peasant farmer, quite probably has a better excuse than the greedy money-grabbing buggers in the West, who regularly sign up for this kind of business, as their lifestyles are a millennia apart, and is clearly documented and attested by many more than myself. So, personally speaking, I can’t really blame them; you make your own decision on that. Anyway, of course, eventually the whole thing gets tumbled, and the account closes, and the scammers recruit another peasant farmer, and start the whole operation again, with barely a blip in their action. The previous peasant farmer account holder is questioned by the police, and the police learn nothing, as the peasant farmer was him or herself duped anyway, and has absolutely no idea of the true identities of the people they’ve been dealing with. And, naturally, a physical description isn’t going to help much. I understand that to many foreigners, everyone may look the same here, but, that isn’t true, of course. People here do have very distinct personal physical attributes. However, without wishing to sound racist, and by sticking to reality, whether it pleases us to do so or not, the general physical characteristics are certainly much of a muchness; in as much as hair, skin, and eye colour, or whether he or she looked like an East European, had a certain Latino appearance, or shocking red hair and green eyes. I mean, can you imagine the interrogation of the peasant? Policeman 1: So, what did this man look like? Peasant: Well, he was maybe 30 years old, about 5 feet 6 inches, had short black hair, yellow skin, slanted dark brown eyes, and a wide or flat nose. Policeman 1: O.K., So we can rule out all the women and men under 30 years of age in the country. That just leaves the rest of the population. Hold on! What Kind of accent did he have? Peasant: He sounded like he came from Henan Province to me. Policeman 1: Ah ha! From Henan you say. Well, that’s a lucky break for us, as there are only 100 million people in Henan. So, if we discount all the women, that brings us to about 70 million males. O.K. that’s god, that’s good… Then we discount those under 30 years of age. and those above 40 years of age… Let me see… Yes…, that leaves us with only… Great Scott! Only 21,000,000 men to search through; By George! We’re on to them now. You can tell Mr. Stupid Bugger in England, that we’ll soon have his $300 dollars back for him. Policeman 2: But, Sir. What if the perpetrator doesn’t live in Henan anymore, and is living… well… …somewhere else in China? Policeman 1: Damn it, Caruthers, you’re right! Stop that telegram to Mr. Stupid bugger in England. Now, (He paces the room thoughtfully, clenched fist, arms folded and thumb to top teeth, looking into nothingness on the floor before him) Mmmm… yes… Yes, this really puts the cat amongst the pigeons. I think this may take a little longer than I at first thought. And that’s it basically.

A Submarine In Your Bathtub

A Submarine In Your Bathtub

That’s why, if you lose your money here, the chances of you  ever seeing it again, are about the same as you taking a bath, and a nuclear submarine surfacing in it, raking you with machine-gun fire, stealing your rubber duck, submerging, and then going back to base for debriefing, a plate of hot and crispy cod and chips (fries) with brown sauce, washed down with a warm cup of  hot cocoa, and all before bed-time. Now, if you’re sensible, then you’ll go back to the OLD FASHIONED WAY of doing things, and hire an agent, like me, to protect your interests, and to ensure that you don’t find yourself taking a bath with a submarine. The choice is yours. You’ve been warned. Again! Safe Trading!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 04:05:42. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

Popularity: 13%

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Posted in General Information, Scams And Scammers | 1 Comment »

The China CEO Gift-Giving Scam

Saturday, August 14th, 2010

Municipality of Tianjin
Image of Tianjin via Wikipedia

I was recently contacted by Eric Vermaas, the CEO of PT Team Wood (www.teamwood.org), a Dutch-Indonesian timber and furniture partnership based in Jakarta, to run a background check on an Import Export company based in Tianjin, China, and which had just placed an order for $915,000 USD in speciality wood furnishings. Fortunately, for Eric I just happened to be in Tianjin at the time, as I was visiting family for the Mid-Autumn Festival, one of the two main traditional festivals along with Chinese New Year, and therefore checking them out was a fairly simple process for me. The Chinese company details are as follows: Tianjin Tanbo Import & Export Trade Co., Ltd., Address: 43 Nanjing Road, Heping District, 300350, Tianjin, China Web: www.sjzdingsheng.com.cn Tel: + 86 228 143 92 09 Fax: + 86 400 67 61 100 ext 1010 Email: heiyexingguang8@126.com, tanbo_2003@yeah.net Trade Manager: Chen Jinliang I quickly discovered that telephone number is not a land line, and is actually a mobile number known as a xiao ling tong, and which looks like a land-line number, can’t be easily traced, and is very cheap to buy. The fax number isn’t in Tianjin and seems to be out of town, and is perhaps a fax service somewhere, hence the extension number; quite probably a big room in a cheap building with a number of fax machines in it – linked to a PBX if the extension number is anything to go by. I visited the address provided on the website and discovered that it doesn’t actually exist. Basically the numbers on that street jump from number 35 to number 57 Nanjing Road, with nothing but an abandoned construction site between these two numbers, and therefore no sign of number 43. Of course, all of this seemed somewhat suspicious at best, particularly more so since I further determined that they allegedly scammed a businessperson from Europe out of 8,000 Euros on or about the 22nd or 23rd of September 2009 (you can find the details here), and have also placed large orders with several other companies, in one case up to $600,000 USD in value, and all since the 31st August 2009. I further discovered that Tianjin Tanbo Import & Export Trade Co., Ltd., also operate under the name of Hebei Dingsheng Import & Export Company, and have the same non-existent address. In consequence to all of the above I strongly advised PT Team Wood to have nothing whatsoever to do with this “company“. Tianjin Tanbo also failed to respond to my repeated phone calls or emails. Particularly when once they realised they had Chinese speakers, currently resident in China, on their tails. The only call we had, and which I instigated, was brief, and led to their prevarication and a lot of stuttering, particularly when I asked for their address, and they said it was the same as the website – to which I responded that I’d been to visit the location, and it didn’t exist. Whereupon they responded that they’d just recently moved. How convenient and how odd they’d forgotten to mention this when first asked, or even to update their website. Finally, I asked them to have a senior executive call me back, and have had no response in the three days since that call – and neither do I expect one.

The CEO Gift Scam Works in the Following Manner:

1. The scammer places a large order with you. 2. They then invite you to China to finalise the contract. 3. When you arrive, they will tell you that in traditional Chinese business culture you should buy the CEO a gift commensurate with his position. This in the case of the last person I found scammed by them was for gold bars worth 8,000 Euros. 4. After you have signed the contract and returned home, they then contact you again and tell you the contracts must be translated and stamped and sealed by a notary, and that the fee for this is 1,350 Euros or something of the type. 5. If you pay that then the next step would be for them to cease contact with you, as they are in no way interested in a purchase.

Gift-Giving In China

Gift-giving in China is common in business, but a bottle of wine or a treat from your own country is usually more than acceptable, and I know of no CEO who would expect me to buy them anything expensive. Moreover, since you are a foreigner you’re usually expected to be ignorant of gift-giving in China, and so are exempt from this. Most gifts between Chinese businessmen are cigarettes, Chinese white spirits (baijiu – a strong clear alcohol), or a good tea; certainly never in the form of gold bars, unless you have plans on bribing your way into a contract. In conclusion, and as a rule of thumb, you should never feel obliged to buy anybody any kind of gift in China during the pursuance of your business interactions. However, out of politeness, a small gift of not-too-great an expense from your own country or culture will be gratefully received and appreciated. Safe Trading!

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Originally posted 2009-10-07 22:50:26. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

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More Dirt On Esources.co.uk – Just How Grubby Is Their Laundry?

Friday, August 6th, 2010

Is Esources.co.uk Being Used As A Means Of Collecting Credit Card, And Personal Details Necessary For Identity Theft?

Here’s something new on the Esources scam trail. I happened to be reviewing the key words used by visitors coming to the blog this evening, and saw a particular string, which I followed, and which brought me to an excellent resource known as FraudWatchInternational.com, and under the section: Home > Fraud Education > Fake Jobs (Money Mules), I found a note on our old friend Stefano Carboni’s company, Esources.co.uk, entitled: Esources Limtited UK – Fake Job (Money Mule Scam).

What’s a “Money Mule”? I hear you asking.

Well, our splendid friends at WikiPedia provide us with a simple and concise explanation, or definition, of the term, as follows:

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

A money mule is a person who transfers money and reships high value goods that have been fraudulently obtained in one country, usually via the internet, to another country, usually where the perpetrator of the fraud lives. The term money mule is formed by analogy with drug mules.

The need for money mules arises because while a criminal in a developing country can obtain the credit card numbers, bank account numbers, passwords and other financial details of a victim living in the first world via the internet through techniques such as malware and phishing, turning those details into money usable in the criminal’s own country can be difficult. Many businesses will refuse to transfer money or ship goods to certain countries where there is a high likelihood that the transaction is fraudulent. The criminal therefore recruits a money mule in the victim’s country who will receive money transfers and merchandise and resend them to the criminal in return for a commission.

I then came across the following site: http://www.banksafeonline.org.uk/moneymule_explained.html, where they present a lovely interactive graphic of how the scam works, and a very plain English overview of the scam in action, and include such warnings as:

“Remember that even if you have nothing to do with the actual extraction of funds from another person’s account, by allowing your account to be used to receive and transfer such funds, you will be acting illegally.”

Therefore, one might actually conclude that Mr. Carboni isn’t satisfied with swindling people out of their payments through his scam-site, esources.co.uk, but is actively attempting to engage people into placing themselves in a criminally damaging position, in the pursuance of satisfying his need to feed his greed, and his swindling addiction. I mentioned in an earlier article that similar letters from his company were lodged on file at www.data-wales.co.uk under the Representative Fake Cheque Scam.

www.banksafeonline.org.uk go on to explain the steps involved:

  1. Fraudsters contact prospective victims with “job vacancy” adverts via spam emails, letters, newspaper job adverts, Internet chat rooms or job search web sites. Jobs are usually advertised as a “financial manager” and suggest that no special knowledge is required.
  2. The fraudsters convince the victim to come and work for their fake “company”. Some fraudsters even ask mules to sign official-looking contracts of employment.
  3. Once recruited, money mules will receive funds into their accounts. These funds will have been stolen by the fraudsters from another account that has been compromised.
  4. Mules are then asked to take these funds out of their account and to forward them overseas (minus a commission payment) typically using a wire transfer service. Acting as a mule is an illegal activity. When caught, money mules often have their bank accounts suspended, containing *all* of their money.

Of course, having your bank account, and the assets therein frozen, will be the least of your worries; one would assume you’d be more worried about the possible prison time you may have to serve.

Certainly in Australia, the Australian Federal Police, as cited on the Australian Bankers Association website, state clearly that the penalty for being a Money Mule is up to a maximum of 20 years in prison; whilst in the US, according to the US Department of Justice, you could be facing a possible 30 years in prison, a fine of up to $1,000,000, and up to five years of supervised release.

At the present moment, I am unable to furnish a penalty for the UK, but can state that it obviously is illegal, and that you will have your account, and assets frozen, you will be liable to repay the monies you earned, and perhaps more, to the actual victims, you will serve some time in prison, and you will carry both a criminal record, and shredded credit rating for the rest of your life.

So, this is no laughing matter, and Mr. Carboni seems to be entangled in this, along with his “company” Esources.co.uk, and quite possibly his alternative site Wholesaledeals.co.uk, by virtue of being under the ownership of the same individual.

Here is the extract from FraudWatchInternational, and the link to the page direct, and I’ll leave you to make your own opinions, and to draw further conclusions, as to the legality of the man and the “companies” he represents. Please, also take note that in the email, right at the beginning, the author states that Esources is a Ltd. company, but in actuality it is not registered as such in the UK.

“The following is an example email for this fake job, otherwise known as a money mule scam. Please forward all fake job emails to scams@fraudwatchinternational.com

Dear Sir/Ma.

Esources Limtited UK (http://www.esources.co.uk) is in search of a book-keeper/company representative in the U.S.A/CANADA. This project has been developed in a way not to affect your present job nor bring you any form of stress but in order to help take care of those extra costs while you work for us. Esources is a small company thats deals in whole sales of T-Shirts, Cardigans,Ladies Tops,Kids wear & Silver Jewellery . We offer exceptional customer service and quality at discounted prices!. Everything in our catalogue is priced in UK/US funds. You can check to see from our web-site.

Recently It came to my knowledge that there are a lot of lapses in
handling funds coming from our clients in the USA which come in forms of Cashiers checks,Company checks and Money Orders which are not readily cashable outside the United States. So we need someone in the U.S.A to work as our representative and assist us in processing the payments from our various clients which come in on a weekly,monthly and annual basis.This is why we decided to employ a representative over in theU.S.A to help us receive our payments at your contact address you shall be providing us,in order to process our payment from our clients.

All you need to do is receive these payments from our clients in the U.S.A get it cashed at your banking institution. You are entittled to(10% of each payment) that you process. After payment must have been cashed and deducted your working fee. You will send the remaining fund to us. Our payments will be issued out in your name as we will inform our clients to do. Therefore the following details would be needed: I would require you to send me an email with the following details:

1)Your Full Name:
2)Contact Address,City,State & Zipcode:
3)Home & Cell Phone number:
4)Age:
5)Occupation:
6)Sex(Male/Female):

Reply to: jeannettehintz@aol.com

We would forward these informations to one of our clients and they will start making payments to you as the company’s representative in the states . Once we have all your details in our records.We would notify you as soon we confirm that one of ourcleints is mailing payment across to you.

I await your urgent response.
Warmest Regards.
Jeannette Hintz.
Head Of Human Resources.
eSources.co.uk”.

Finally, look at that lovely line in the email, “We offer exceptional customer service and quality at discounted prices!”

What a load of rubbish! Obviously Mr. Carboni’s idea of “…exceptional customer service…“, doesn’t run as far as actually having an operating telephone, where customers can contact him, or his representatives; wherever he is, and wherever his “company” is, as all we have are mailing addresses, and a website! There is no physical presence, and no means of direct contact, other than email.

A parting thought: Might you be in danger of identity theft, if you’re paying for membership to either of Mr. Carboni’s websites. After all, you’re giving him a huge amount of personal information, not to mention your  credit card details. Just think about it for a moment.

Safe Trading!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 01:40:20. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

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Did You Do it To Yourself? And Are You Still Doing It?

Friday, August 6th, 2010

Scammed or Self-Inflicted Wound?

It’s my personal opinion that many people who get themselves scammed in China, or elsewhere for that matter, do so almost willingly.

When I say “willingly“, I don’t actually mean that they say, “Hey! Mr. Scammer, please take my money from me!“ Although, when one looks at it from a certain direction, it may appear to be almost a silent agreement to such.

The Addictive Brain!

The Addictive Brain!

But, what I really mean, is that it’s reminiscent of the behaviour of a drug addict; because one knows one shouldn’t, but one nevertheless goes and does it anyway.

People usually KNOW a few things before a scammer closes on them.

1. They know that the deal is too good to be true.

Which quite frankly, in and of itself, should be ringing every alarm bell in their nervous systems.

2. They know that they are ignoring the warnings that their whole life’s experiences are sending them.

Yes, they just feel the truth of it in the seat of their pants – that something isn’t quite right. But, like the risk takers we humans are, ike the eternal optimists that we are – we persist with it and even ignore our own selves.

3. They know they should not send that money.

By this point, these people are really like junkies trying to withdraw from drugs. “I know I shouldn’t, but I just can’t help myself. I just need to do it. Just once more. I’m sure I’ll get lucky this time!“

Don't Play Russian Roulette With Your Money!

Don't Play Russian Roulette With Your Money!

We use most of our senses, to avoid being set on fire, to smell the foods we eat, and perhaps the dog poop behind the sofa; we use our ears and eyes to stop us being run over by a car or truck, as we cross the road.

But, then we go and send $ 5,000 to some girl called “Minky” on the other side of the planet!

I mean – HEY! That isn’t even a real name,; and I don’t mean a fake or false identity. I mean not real as in the same way that I don’t have “kizu-maliki-shopytoof” in my kitchen; primarily because no such thing exists, not unless by sheer fluke I’ve named a real kitchen utensil in some obscure language.

Surely the fact they can’t even get a regular name together must tell you something about the SERIOUSNESS of the people you’re dealing with.

I’m reminded of those people who call those telephone sex lines (whatever they are), and some grotesque woman is sitting there pushing Twinkies, or another brand of sweet and sticky thing, down her throat like a factory production line, weighing in at 437 lbs (at 5 feet 3), and has to walk with the aid of sticks due to her medically gross obesity, is telling you her name is “Yvette“, and that she’s tall, slim, has diplomas in dance and theatre, is wearing a black negligee, likes you much more than anybody else who calls, because you’re almost like a real friend, and that we really should meet one day, but now she’s feeling really wet for you, and would you like to….

Ahem! Well, I’m sure you get the picture.

These “victims” have a sense that it’s going to happen, but still they press on, gritting their teeth in the hopes of a win.

Now, that’s what I call optimism!

Yes, these people know it’s going to happen. If not actually GOING TO, then certainly VERY LIKELY TO.

That’s what makes the scam almost a self-inflicted wound!

We're All Gamblers In One Way Or Another!

We're All Gamblers In One Way Or Another!

Honestly, the inside of these peoples’ heads must look and sound exactly the same as that of a gambler with his last dollar – there he is standing in front of a fruit machine, and trying to decide whether to buy some food to eat, or slip it into the slot.

Of course, the decision was already made before he’d even thought of the question. Because our human sense of risk, or addiction, tends to walk about three paces in front of all other thought processes we’re experiencing.

Our sense of risk rides along like a surf board on the wave of every other thought we have. And it is because of this that our addiction will always finish ahead of everything else we think, do, taste, or feel.

It lives on the top of that wave, and everything else rests in its’ shadow.

We tell alcoholics that the first thing they need to do is understand that they HAVE A PROBLEM, before they can address it.

The same is true here.

In the same way as those guys calling on those sex lines, often the people who lose out here and elsewhere, are simply deluding themselves. They actually make the job of being a scammer easier.

Just remember this. A scam can only occur when one party wants something for nothing; all the other party is doing is giving you nothing for something.

Try to cut corners and you’ll cut your own throat.

There is no secret way; no special way; no something to which you aren’t privy.

There is simply a right way and wrong way. The first will bring you benefits, and the second will bring you misery.

You’ll simply lose the dollars, whilst trying to save the cents.

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 00:51:02. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

Popularity: 9%

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What Can Happen If You Lose On A Deal In China?

Tuesday, August 3rd, 2010

What Can You Expect To Pay For CIETAC To Arbitrate For You, Should You Lose On A Deal In China?.

So, you lost out, and were skinned and scammed by a company in China, and now you want to go to arbitration to get back what you’ve lost, as well as getting some justice from the “evil doers“, as Mr. Bush might say. So, what’s it going to cost you? Well, the following is the CIETAC fee schedule for their arbitration services, which I’ve converted, as near as possible, to the corresponding USD values. Now, remember, when you choose to go into arbitration you agree to abide by the arbitral outcome. That is to say, that should the judgement go against you then all of the following monies tabulated below, will be lost to you on-top of your actual current losses. And don’t go confusing Western Jurisprudence with that of China; it may very well go against you. Remember, this is another risk. As clearly stated beyond the main table, there may be further “…arbitration fee(s) according to this Arbitration Fee Schedule, the CIETAC or its Sub-commission may collect other extra, reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules.” Meaning, that whatever you’re charged in the initial schedule may also include further fees levied to your account to the value of 1,500 USD per additional charge, per additional “…reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules.” Of course, even should you win, the defendant may still hold you up by delaying payment for a variety of reasons, and causing you to resort to CIETAC again, at further expense, which you will then have to get CIETAC to levy back against the defendant. Or, of course, they may just shut up shop and disappear. This kind of tactic wouldn’t necessarily be unusual. Now, let’s just take a look at a bare-bones example, without the extra fees, and see what we’re talking about here. We’ll take the lowest level in the schedule as an example, and this is just waving the stick a little, to get an idea of how things could go. So, you lost $150,000 to a company somewhere in some province, in China. You go to CIETAC, and before anything happens (and at this point I think it only fitting to mention that there is about a 9 month backlog with CIETAC) you are charged a fee of $5,250, plus the $1,500 registration fee, which is charged at all levels. Therefore, you’re current total is now $6,750, and you’ve just finished the registration process alone. Then there will be charges for phone calls, letters, and transport costs for an examiner to visit the defendant or their place of business, hotel costs, living cost etc. So, let’s just consider transport, living, interview, and visitation costs. Let’s just call that another $3,000, and remain in the conservative area of things. That would bring you up to around the $9,750 mark. Then there’ll be the weeks and months of back and forth, hither and thither, as nothing in this vein happens either quickly or directly in China. In the meantime, you may see your charges rise by another $3,000, before you even get close to an arbitral decision; and by which time you will have shelled out, on top of your $150,000 loss, another $12,750, and you’ll be sweating and hoping it all goes your way, or else you’ve lost your initial loss of $150,000 plus another $12,750. So, are you shaking in your boots? Quivering with anger and frustration? You should be! Before I present you with the CIETAC arbitration fee schedule, allow me to tell you that there’s another way around this, and that is – PREVENTION.

Your China Trading Partner

Your China Trading Partner

Very simply, you can contact us at Your China Trading Partner, and we’ll make a factory visit, do your Due Diligence, and arrange for your goods to be checked before leaving port. For us to go visit the factory, and to have your goods checked at port before shipping, will cost you approximately another $850 to $1,000 on top of your costs; whilst of course, on our factory visit we’ll get your supplier to agree to the insertion of the CIETAC Arbitration Clause in your joint contract, and which states: “Any dispute arising from or in connection with this Contract shall be submitted to China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission for arbitration which shall be conducted in accordance with the Commission’s arbitration rules in effect at the time of applying for arbitration. The arbitral award is final and binding upon both parties.” And thereby, offer you a little extra protection; additionally, of course, you can include in the terms of your L/C, that monies will not be released until goods have passed random quality checking, at their exit port prior to shipping. Now, here’s a final question for you, before I introduce you to that fee schedule. Doesn’t it make a lot more sense to spend another $850 to $1,000 on top of your costs, as insurance against the nightmare of losing your investment, and then having to go to arbitration with CIETAC? I’m a little tired of hearing about all these losses, when I know that even if they can’t be completely dissolved, they can, at the very least, be seriously mitigated. But, we live in a cost-cutting global mentality, and have done since the Thatcher and Reagan years; and people are silly enough to even cut costs on their insurance and investment security. This is precisely the kind of mentality that makes dollars for the scammers, and no cents to me? Does it make cents to you? Get the pun? Now Here’s That Fee Schedule for you.

China International Economic and Trade Arbitration Commission

ARBITRATION FEE SCHEDULE (This fee schedule applies to the arbitration cases accepted under Item 1 and 2 of Article 3 of the Arbitration Rules, and becomes effective on May 1, 2005)

Amount of Claim (USD). Amount of Fee (USD).
150,000 USD or less. 3.5% of the Claimed Amount, minimum 1,500 USD.
150,000 USD to 750,000 USD. 5,000 USD plus 2.5% of the amount above 150,000 USD.
750,000 USD to 1,500,000 USD. 19,750 USD plus 1.5% of the amount above 750,000 USD.
1,500,00 USD to 7,500,000 USD. 30,700 USD plus 1% of the amount above 1,500,000 USD.
7,500,000 USD or more. 90,000 USD plus 0.5% of the amount above 7,500,000 USD.

Each case, when being accepted, shall be charged an additional amount of $1,500 as a Registration Fee which includes the expenses for examining the application for arbitration, initiating the arbitration proceedings, computerizing management and filing the documents. Where the amount of the claim is not ascertained at the time when application for arbitration is handed in, or there exists special circumstances, the amount of arbitration fee shall be determined by the secretariat of the CIETAC or its Sub-Commission. Apart from charging arbitration fee according to this Arbitration Fee Schedule, the CIETAC or its Sub-commission may collect other extra, reasonable and actual expenses pursuant to the relevant provisions of the Arbitration Rules. Safe Trading!

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Originally posted 2009-08-13 05:48:30. Republished by Blog Post Promoter

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